Curse

Barkeep · Jul 18, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

To get back to eden's point.

I completely agree that enchantment removals on necros are quite ridiculous at the moment. Most mesmer removals have a recharge thats somewhere between 15 and 25. These are (nearly?) all single enchant removals. If you want to remove more than one you're often forced to pick an elite enchantment removal, or you'll have to use a significant amount of energy (mirror).

Necro removals are not even in the same league as mesmer removals, it's like they are made for a completely different game. Rip, rend and gaze of contempt are the three most obvious examples. These ench removals need to be put back in line. Rip needs a 20 second recharge, and rend should go back to 30, and gaze on 25. I don't know why they got buffed anyway.

Although, if I have to believe all the people posting on guru it's because izzy wants us to remove all dervish enchantments with it.. Well.. idc about derv enchs, just give EDA a 1 sec casting time and u can revert all those removals to their old, not OPed form.

Edit: Oh, and I agree with you too that grasping is quite ridiculous. However, it's something that keeps me alive against gimmicks. So I'd hate to see it being touched. but yeh, it's just silly how a 5 energy spell can keep an AoE snare up at 5 atts permanently. (sorry leya

)

I Gut you Gut · Jul 18, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Wah wah wah. If these skills are incredibly powerful and everyone is using them, stand out and design a build to beat them!

Its called "challenge". Not everyone needs the bar lowered

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runes2713

...Honestly...when a skill gets to the point where it belongs on EVERY one of that class, it needs a nerf.

You're right. Lets nerf D shot

Barkeep · Jul 18, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

.... so it's ok if skills are overpowered, as long as there are people who take up the very unrewarding task of getting pummeled because they do not use those skills.

I don't need the bar lowered, I just want to be beaten because someone is better than I am. Not because they use more overpowered skills than I do.

Raising the bar means playing balanced against good players, playing against rampage as one teams isnt raising the bar..

Also, to ur epic d-shot comment. If those skills require a certain amount of skill to use like veil / d-shot / bulls strike. I'd love to see more of them. However, if they work best when spammed mindlessly and have huge effect even when someone without a brain uses it, I think something is wrong.

Have fun countering overpowered stuff, it doesn't make you any better than all the gimmick players who abuse OPed skills.

the_deSKtructor · Jul 18, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Gut you Gut

Wah wah wah. If these skills are incredibly powerful and everyone is using them, stand out and design a build to beat them!

Its called "challenge". Not everyone needs the bar lowered

You are one of those guys which are bad for the game; promoting build wars is definitively bad.

bungusmaximus · Jul 18, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Gut you Gut

Its called "challenge". Not everyone needs the bar lowered

Lol, nope, indeed, and thats why scrub skills need to die in a car fire

DarkNecrid · Jul 18, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Wah wah wah. If these skills are incredibly powerful and everyone is using them, stand out and design a build to beat them!

so i herd build warz wuz bad

The only counter to WoD is hex removal, and if you remove it (it lasts for 3 seconds...) it comes back very shortly or shutdown the necro even though they have 2 monks.

Tearz1993 · Jul 18, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

I saw SoM mesmer in observer yesterday and played against one last night.

Coincidence?

urania · Jul 18, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

No problem.

but you obviously think its a problem so I don't know why you took offense!! maybe I should reword my post or something idk.

you should have started ur sentence with sth like "anyone who thinks..." (;

Trenixz · Jul 18, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

If you don't think the new Wail of Doom is broken, then you are dumb.

Here, let me change the skill description for you:
Wail of Doom
Doesn't Matter Sacrifice, Negligible Energy Cost, Near Instant Cast Activation, Very Very Short Recharge
""Removes target player from the game for 1...3 seconds."

Yeah.

No.

This isn't World of Warcraft, this game has never been about keeping people out of the game (LITERALLY anyways) the longest. Wail of Doom is very much a "World of Warcraft-esque" ability. I'm almost surprised it doesn't have it already, tbh! But it doesn't fit Guild Wars.

The only other skill that does something even remotely similar is Blackout, but Blackout requires touch range and doesn't make your physical attacks shit. (and requires a considerable more amount of skill to use than WoD)

Whereas a WoD on a melee class makes them output 1-2 damage range as well.

So yeh.

Because knockdowns don't make people useless for 3-4 seconds?

moko · Jul 18, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenixz

Because knockdowns don't make people useless for 3-4 seconds?

because knockdowns don't cost 1e, have a 10 sec recharge that works on 40/40, are ranged, can be shut way easier..uh yeah.

Quote:

(it lasts for 3 seconds...)

4*

why don't you guys want to accept that WoD is dumb and needs to die?

DarkNecrid · Jul 18, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenixz

Because knockdowns don't make people useless for 3-4 seconds?

are you really comparing a knockdown to Wail of Doom.

please don't actually answer this, it is rhetorical.

moko, how do you stand modding this? :/

Trenixz · Jul 18, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

are you really comparing a knockdown to Wail of Doom.

please don't actually answer this, it is rhetorical.

moko, how do you stand modding this? :/

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but i was not saying that WoD is balanced, I was simply saying that your statement about it making people useless for 4 seconds was not bad because it "doesn't fit GW". I was just saying that people have been made useless temporarily since the beginning of the game. I don't pvp much, so I would not know how imbalanced it could be in a match.

DarkNecrid · Jul 18, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenixz

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but i was not saying that WoD is balanced, I was simply saying that your statement about it making people useless for 4 seconds was not bad because it "doesn't fit GW". I was just saying that people have been made useless temporarily since the beginning of the game. I don't pvp much, so I would not know how imbalanced it could be in a match.

Knockdowns do not make you completely useless, you can still use Stance skills if you have them. More over, Knockdowns are not completely used in the same way I was talking about. They partially remove someone from the game, but this is balanced by the fact that you can't spam them, you usually have to meet a condition to cause it, and that a majority of KD's are physical attacks which can be mitigated. They are usually used to aid in getting kills (WoD does this too) and removing kiting ability from someone (WoD doesn't do this.) WoD is a spell which can not be mitigated by anything of worth, and is more potent than a KD because stances technically do nothing as well. It takes no real skill to use it. Spam WoD on recharge on a monk, and you are probably going to be good.

I was mostly talking about how Guild Wars has never revolved around the idea of removing people from the game (or made it a focus like WoW is). Abilities that do this do exist, but they are balanced by other things, and aren't even truly needed to get kills! PvP team builds exist without any KDs at all. Wail of Doom is on a whole nother level compared to a KD in shutdown ability, and is the equivalent of World of Warcraft's Polymorph, except cheaper, lasts shorter, recharges faster, casts faster, and doesn't transform the guy into an animal.

Wail of Doom makes pre nerf Gale look like crap. :/ That's saying something.

Just Another Chest Runner · Jul 19, 2008, 03:59 AM // 03:59

but gale wasnt an elite =P

on a serious note i wanna meet a monk who can constantly deal with freaking 40/40 wod on them all freakign game long

oh ya and of course the players who rage at you for being a shitty monk when the other team for some reason decides to have their necro run arcane echo wod

no gg for them ^

Foe · Jul 19, 2008, 05:02 AM // 05:02

FF was the great ta "leveler". It really cut the heart out of high lv balanced play. Necro's cleaning conds for unlimited energy leading to fortress monk bars has made for extraordinarily mundane,boring, and LONG matches. 10 mins of tossing the WoD dice and cond tennis is just boring. The rest i feel still fall with in the realm of build/counterbuild. Alot of people left ta after that update as well which is unfortunate for the format and the game.

Expertise in general is problematic and reigning it would bring some of the current gimmicks back to earth.

Barkeep · Jul 19, 2008, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foe

FF was the great ta "leveler". It really cut the heart out of high lv balanced play. Necro's cleaning conds for unlimited energy leading to fortress monk bars has made for extraordinarily mundane,boring, and LONG matches. 10 mins of tossing the WoD dice and cond tennis is just boring. The rest i feel still fall with in the realm of build/counterbuild. Alot of people left ta after that update as well which is unfortunate for the format and the game.

Quoted for speaking the truth

Hundbert · Jul 19, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Atm CE is actually better than Wod imo. If you run balanced that is.
The best counter vs a necro spamming wod is to let your hammer warrior keep him on the ground and under pressure.

Foe · Jul 19, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Its not the elite in the necro template that is so damaging. As stated. I will say that WoD on its face is an imba skill for the reasons the op and others explained in detail. Ce is strong vs the gimmicks but in balanced matches your necro shouldnt need ce to keep spotless off and monks who stay ahead of the meta opted for cure hex+veil sometime ago anyway. Spotless is great vs bad teams and worthless vs good ones. In my humble opinion.

Skill balance is aimed at gvg, as it should be. The problem is that they could never get the hex/hexremoval meta balanced. Its either been the crazy imba of old reapers, pof, reckless etc..or after the nerfs when it was better to just run 2 wars(ta) .. So basically they gave up and went with ff, the plague line and wod. Necro's see marginal play in gvg even now. Smite ,water, and any one of the many incredible mes and ranger templates still get the nod. Even after the hits on illusion it still gets more play than curses. I think we will see another necro buff before any ff adjustments.

Apok Omen · Jul 19, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Necros will never see play in serious balanced GvG, mainly and widely known because they were a gimmicky class to begin with. Tainted Flesh is the only good balanced thing about them, and FC Mesmers proved to be better for using the skill. All the rest of their skills are hexes with decent recharge-to-duration ratios, along with the best cover hex in the game: Parasitic bond.

Therefore, Necros have to be ran in an environment without enough space for hex removal and splitting. HA is a good example, seeing as how its clumped up and everyone brings skills with ''block'' in their descriptions and limited hex removal (not even enough for GANK's 3 necro hexway, which made ppl bring Convert and shit).

TA is another example. Possible the best. One necro can single-handedly punish blockers, punsih attacking, punish cond-spam, and punish monks for bringing skills to keep their team up. And the average TA monk brings only 1 hex removal and one cond removal.

And ANet continues to believe they can balance the class by buffing potential skills, which backfires on them when Monks, Eles, Mesmers, and Warriors can run these skills better than Necros could (Enfeebling Blood, Rip and Rend Echant, Plague Send, BiP, Rigor...) So they nerf them back and keep trying.

Wail of Doom, in its pre-buff form, was near balanced. It made the necro wait for the attack emote then use the skill to black them out. Now it just assists in killing a monk by making giving them Weakness x12.

Foul Feast is just bad at 5 energy. Making it 10 energy will make Necros think twice before swapping conds for more energy, punish them for mindlessly spamming. Plague Sending is just a cheaper, long range Plague Touch thats only downside is a small health sac that can easily be RoFed.

And on that note, SACCING HEALTH DOES NOT JUSTIFY 1 ENERGY COST SPELLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sig Of Midnight is the solution to the nerfing of Bsurge. Under Mantra, it can be recharged in 8 seconds, and with PS, they can slap the Blind back on them after getting cured. Making it back to 15 sec recharge is a decent thing to balance it.

And about Enraged Lunge and Otgeugueejdnsekfnsefnsjkefnksjeerg Cry, I'm just glad someone is using those two skills.

Now Izzy, what you did to Assassins in the last update showed that you were able to let go of the whole "jump in and instagib" thing you loved in order to restore balance. Now do the same thing to Necros. Stop making them imba just to see them play.

RavagerOfDreams · Jul 20, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

snip

/thread

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